Hi Hong Tang<br><br>I think with horizontal resolution 500m and vertical resolution 1m . The time step should be set to at least 10s.<br><br>Haoran<br><br><br><html>
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<td class="mail-date" valign="top" style=" font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.25; color: #2c2c2e; word-break: break-all; ">2024年08月01日 23:05</td>
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<td class="mail-subject" valign="top" style=" font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.25; color: #2c2c2e; word-break: break-all; ">Re: [MITgcm-support] Seeking Assistance with Numerical Instability in MITgcm Simulation of a Plateau Lake</td>
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<div>Hi Hong Tang</div>
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I agree with Martin. I deal with similar model scales all the time, and your time step will need to be order 1-s, certainly not 100-s.
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<div>Cheers, Jody<br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
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<div>On Aug 1, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Martin Losch <<A data-auto-link="1" href="mailto:Martin.Losch@awi.de">Martin.Losch@awi.de</A>> wrote:</div>
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<div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Dear
Hong Tang,</span>
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since it is a lake I assume that the salinity is zero and you don’t have to worry about salinity advection (so you could set saltStepping = .FALSE. to save some time), but your temperature advection will be done by the default central differences (tempAdvScheme
= 2), which requires stabilisation by diffusion, which is unset and will default to zero.</div>
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So either you change your advection scheme to one with numerical diffusion to stabiliize it, e.g.</div>
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tempAdvScheme = 3, 30, 33 or 7 (have a look ad GAD.h for all options)</div>
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or (and?) you need to set diffKhT to some value > 0</div>
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and your diffKrT (vertical diffusion) should also be non-zero. With 1m vertical resolution, the vertical cfl will probably be the limiting factor for the timestep (monitor adv_cfl_wvel, etc.)</div>
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Martin</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 1. Aug 2024, at 16:48, 唐鸿 <<A data-auto-link="1" href="mailto:tanghong22@mails.ucas.ac.cn">tanghong22@mails.ucas.ac.cn</A>> wrote:</div>
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<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";">Dear MITgcm Support Team,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";">I hope this message finds you well.</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";">I am currently working on a simulation project using the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";">MITgcm to study the dynamic processes of a lake situated
on the Tibetan Plateau, which experiences freezing during winter. The lake, located at an altitude of 4200m with a depth of 28m and a maximum width of 38km, presents unique challenges due to the strong radiation on the plateau that leads to noticeable warming
of the water beneath the ice.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";">I am writing to seek your expert advice as I have encountered<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong>significant numerical instability</strong><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>in my simulations
despite my efforts to adjust model parameters. My current setup is that the horizontal grid size is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong>500m</strong><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and the vertical grid size is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong>1m</strong>.
I have modified the model time step and drive data time to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong>100s</strong>, but I still encounter serious numerical instability.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";"> I have attached my<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><code class="inlineCode___uUrJ9"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";"><strong>data</strong></span></code><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";"><strong><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>file</strong>,
which contains the configuration parameters of my model setup.</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";"></span><span style="white-space: pre;">
</span></p>
<p><span style="white-space: pre;"><br>
</span></p>
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<div><span style="color: rgb(106, 153, 85);"># ====================</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(106, 153, 85);"># | Model parameters |</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(106, 153, 85);"># ====================</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(106, 153, 85);">#</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">&</span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">PARM01</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">tRef</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">10</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">*</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">11</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">sRef</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">10</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">*</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">0.27</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">no_slip_sides</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.</span><span style="color: rgb(86, 156, 214);">FALSE</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">no_slip_bottom</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.</span><span style="color: rgb(86, 156, 214);">TRUE</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">viscAh</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">1.E-4</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">viscAr</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">1.E-4</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">HeatCapacity_Cp</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">3986</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">rhoConstFresh</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">1000</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">rhoNil</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">1000</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">eosType</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(206, 145, 120);">'JMD95Z'</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(106, 153, 85);">#<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">nonHydrostatic</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.</span><span style="color: rgb(86, 156, 214);">TRUE</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">rigidLid</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.</span><span style="color: rgb(86, 156, 214);">TRUE</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">implicitFreeSurface</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.</span><span style="color: rgb(86, 156, 214);">FALSE</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(106, 153, 85);">#</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">useCoriolis</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.</span><span style="color: rgb(86, 156, 214);">FALSE</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">use3dCoriolis</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.</span><span style="color: rgb(86, 156, 214);">FALSE</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(106, 153, 85);">#</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">useSingleCpuIO</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.</span><span style="color: rgb(86, 156, 214);">TRUE</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">readBinaryPrec</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">32</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">writeBinaryPrec</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">32</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">&</span></div>
<br>
<div><span style="color: rgb(106, 153, 85);"># Elliptic solver parameters</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">&</span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">PARM02</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">cg2dMaxIters</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">700</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">cg3dMaxIters</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">100</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">cg2dTargetResidual</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">1.E-7</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">cg3dTargetResidual</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">1.E-7</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">cg2dUseMinResSol</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">1</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">&</span></div>
<br>
<div><span style="color: rgb(106, 153, 85);"># Time stepping parameters</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">&</span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">PARM03</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">abEps</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">0.1</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">deltaT</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">100</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">nIter0</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">0</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">nTimeSteps</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">315361</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">dumpFreq</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">86400</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">chkPtFreq</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">2592000</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">pChkptFreq</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">8640000</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">monitorFreq</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">100</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">&</span></div>
<br>
<div><span style="color: rgb(106, 153, 85);"># Gridding parameters</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">&</span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">PARM04</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">usingCartesianGrid</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.</span><span style="color: rgb(86, 156, 214);">TRUE</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">dXspacing</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">500</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">dYspacing</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">500</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">delR</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">10</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">*</span><span style="color: rgb(181, 206, 168);">1</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">.,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">&</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(106, 153, 85);"># Input datasets</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">&</span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">PARM05</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">bathyFile</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(206, 145, 120);">'Bathy_500m.bin'</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(156, 220, 254);">the_run_name</span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">=</span><span style="color: rgb(206, 145, 120);">'Ngoring_LakeTest_HH'</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">,</span></div>
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<div><span style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(212, 212, 212);">&</span></div>
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<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";">I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or guidance you could provide to improve the numerical stability of my simulation. Thank you very much for considering my request. I look forward to your valuable insights
and suggestions.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";">Best regards,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";">Hong Tang</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";">University of Chinese Academy of Sciences<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></p>
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